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yet another Microsoft blogger

# Tuesday, December 16, 2003

GotDotNet, RSS Bandit and being a Microsoft employee

Since it's open season for Microsoft employees criticizing other Microsoft employees, I will use my pulpit too ;-).

A few days ago Dare posted about moving RSS Bandit to Sourceforge. That's fine and dandy, Dare can do what he wants. However, as a Microsoft employee I personally would not have done what he did, I'll explain why.

Dare posted the Top 10 reasons for moving his project, and I even commented on some of them in the RSS Bandit GotDotNet workspace. I asked Dare if he sent this feedback to the GotDotNet team and Andy Oakley, the PM for that team. Dare wrote back that he sent the same list to Andy, but well, since I guess he did that at the same time that he made the move, I'm guessing there was little Andy could do or say about fixing any of Dare's issues.

Tim Marman then commented on his blog:

"My only question is, if you work for Microsoft, wouldn't it be more beneficial for the entire community to work with the GDN team and have these things fixed?

I'm sure it won't help the GDN community grow when you have Microsoft employees moving their (high-profile) projects elsewhere."

Which is something that struck me, because I thought the same thing. Dare responded to Tim and stated:

"Which is more valuable to Microsoft, that developers and users have access to well-written and innovative applications targetting the .NET Framework or that everyone use GotDotNet to host their project?

Quite frankly, I'm quite irritated by the number of people who've been hassling me about decisions regarding a project I work on in my free time and the implicit obligations they've placed on me. Should I also sell my iPod because it doesn't support WMA? How about my car? Should I also sell my car and get a BMW 7-series so I can run a car with Windows Automotive? Should I get rid of my TiVo since it doesn't use Windows? Should I sell the shares I have in other companies and buy only Microsoft stock? If RSS Bandit being hosted on GotDotNet is so important to you, the source code is available. You can fork the project and keep it alive on GotDotNet."
 
So who is right? Well as Steve Ballmer has said in speaking to us, we always face the “tyrany of OR”. For example, do you focus on quality OR features when developing software? Do you slip the release, potentially missing your budget, OR release something that doesn't have the quality you want? The tyranny is that we face these kinds of decisions all the time and to succeed as a company we have to do both. That is the tyranny Steve talks about.
 
I think that Dare is oversimplifying things (I have an iPod too). It's not about the fact that he is perfectly entitled to move his site to SourceForge and spend his free and spare time working on RSS Bandit in a way that makes him happy. However, I agree whole heartedly with Tim. He succinctly states:

"My point was that GDN does have these problems. I just thought Dare, as a Microsoft employee, might be in a better position to identify and work with people to get them resolved."

Dare, myself, everyone at Microsoft is in a better position to work with other employees to get these kind of issues resolved. I routinely dofood (Microsoft speak for using pre-release versions of software) numerous products, and get on the internal mailing lists for those products and give plenty of feedback. I did this for OneNote, Media Center, Windows XP, Windows 2000 and am currently doing this for Lonestar and a bunch of other products I can't talk about. When I find issues I find the Program Manager who owns that feature and let them know how I feel, check on dates for when fixes might ship and so on. This is just part of my work ethic, not everyone is like this, and I don't expect that everyone do what I do. However, I do believe that as an individual I personally have the ability to help other teams succeed. And as a Microsoft employee I have unique access and the ability in influence some of the brightest people in the industry to help them make their products better.

Microsoft has a vested interested in making GotDotNet a success. As an employee I use GotDotNet for my personal projects (currently dasBlog and JPEG Hammer) and while I find that there are warts, and problems, I also recognize that it's a v 1.1 product. If I look back on what Entourage (the product I used to work on) was like when it was v1, and look where it is now, I am thankfully that many of our customers stuck with us because they knew it would get better, because we worked on the product for 3 years and released v2 and v3, and now we have a product that I am extremely proud of and has received much fanfare. It's the people that stuck with the product (we have an incredible loyal group of beta testers) and kept giving us honest feedback that are the real heroes of our development efforts. This experience has probably shaped my perspectives and attitudes on issues like this one. In this case of GotDotNet I am happy to support and give feedback to Andy and his team, and live through the growing pains and support my company in making a better product for me, and our customers.

Andy has already publicly responded to Dare's Top 10 list. A bit to late for the move I guess, or maybe it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

 

Thursday, December 18, 2003 8:31:49 PM (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
[My cable modem is down if not I'd have posted the following comment in my blog. I'll post it once the cable guy fixes my modem tomorrow]

The entire premise of your post is that GotDotNet workspaces is an important project to Microsoft that its employees should rally around regardless of its quality. I disagree. The blogs and forums were what made GotDotNet a community but the blogs have been knifed and I still keep an eye on the forums so I don't feel like I've stopped being part of the GotDotNet community experience.

I've always thought that building a SourceForge knockoff site was the wrong way to encourage Open Source development of .NET applications but still went ahead and supported GotDotNet workspaces. The high order bit for me has and always will be encouraging people to build and use applications [that utilize XML] targetted at the .NET Framework. Once GotDotNet started getting in the way of that it was time for me to move. I've been exchanging mail with Andy Oakley for months about GotDotNet Workspaces, giving feedback where I could including reviewing specs. In fact I sent him mail informing him that I was considering moving to SourceForge before I actually made the move. The only issue I can see is that I posted the my "top 10 issues list" publicly which may have been embarassing to him.

As for dogfooding Microsoft products and giving product teams feedback, this is just something I've always done and in fact I've gotten somewhat of a reputation for being an annoying git when it comes to giving critical feedback both to folks on my team and to other teams as well (especially MSDN). If anything I doubt your work ethic is much different from mine when it comes to how much we care about making Microsoft a great company. We just have different priorities, you think GotDotNet workspaces is important to Microsoft's future and I don't. Instead I think ensuring that whenever WinFS and Indigo ship, they don't suck, is more important to me and RSS Bandit is one of the ways I plan to dogfood them and provide my feedback to Mike Deem, Steve Swartz and co.

I don't need to be taught the value of dogfooding Microsoft products or providing feedback to product teams and quite frankly I resent the implication in your post that I am being derelict in my duty as an employee of Microsoft.

Hoepfully this will be the final word in the "RSS Bandit has moved to SourceForge" saga.
Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:49:34 PM (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
Thanks for the comment. My post was more a philosophical one than me actually thinking or implying that you are a bad person for what you did, cause I don't. I just explained that I wouldn't have done it, and offered my perspective. As I've stated you are perfectly capable of making the best choice for you and your project.

I do think that as a community site, GDN is valuable to Microsoft. It encourages people to use our tools, SourceControl servers, Passport servers and dogfood other relevent technologies in the company. At the same time it gives our end users, hobby developers etc a nice free place to put there stuff. We don't have a good track record in the past for putting a lot of energy into sponsoring our community and GDN is a good step in that direction.

Maybe I have a higher tolerance for pain in this case, but I simply would have given them time to improve things. If none of my feedback was incorporated at all in the next release, then maybe I would think twice about staying... but I'm optimistic that your top 10 list will be addressed in a future release. Working on a v1 product is tough. There is so much you have to do to get something out the door, and then there are all the features you have to do cause customers are now using your product and asking you for them. Not to mention that SourceForge has been around for a much longer time. RSS Bandit is a pretty high profile GDN workspace, so I was just a bit shocked to see how quicly the decision to move and the move occured.

Lastly, I wonder if your experiences about some of the more painfull aspects of GDN would be better if you were using the Visual Studio.NET integrated Source Control sysytem. It's far far better than the WinForms or HTML source control apps.
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