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yet another Microsoft blogger

# Wednesday, February 04, 2004

Will Apple Go .NET?

[OSNews] Will Apple Go .NET?

Interesting article. I'm not holding my breath waiting, but I think this would be great.

Personally, as a hobbyist programmer, I've found .NET: C# and VB.NET to be incredibly easy to learn and powerful. On the Mac I used to rely on AppleScript and Real Basic for programming. I never learned Pascal, C or Objective C. I did learn C++ and quickly determined that I wanted nothing to do with it. I also learned java and learned that Java support on the Mac was second rate (back in the days of Java 1.0 - 1.3).

.NET is simply amazing (in my humble opinion). In a few short months I've learned how to build powerful Windows Forms applications, Web based ASP.NET apps, and Mobile Compact Framework apps, Tablet apps and just recently learned a little COM interop to write a Windows Media Center Sink to display status about Media Center on my Vacuum Fluorescent Display.

Now, back to the Mac. I loved AppleScript because I could write glue that tied two Applications together and did useful things. I did quite a bit of this back then. I then moved onto

Real Basic because it allowed me to build rich GUIs with a very simple programming language. They offered Mac like native widgets unlike Java which had a horrible platform agnostic GUI. Sadly Apple's editor for AppleScript was super lame (still is) and I used a great third party product called Script Debugger. With Real Basic I was obviously using a third party product to write those programs. And with Java there was Metrowerks which is what I used in college when taking my C++ and Java classes. However, I wasn't using any Apple software or tools to develop Mac stuff. How does a company build a good developer story if it isn't in the tools business?

Enter Mac OS X. Apple now has Cocoa, Project Builder, XCode and some other stuff. However, I looked at Objective C once. It scared me to death. In my role I need to prototype a lot of UI. I've used Real Basic in the past (cause it's way easier than using PhotoShop and traditional pixel pushing), and it was great for this. However, I needed to build a prototype with a Mac native Toolbar (OS X toolbar). I figured I could fire up Interface Builder and drag the toolbar control to a Window. Nope. I had to use Apple's developer website to find some Objective C sample code to do this. Right at that point I gave up. Compare this to writing or prototyping a Windows Forms app where you just drag the control to the Form and you're done. Everything is done with point and click. And of course if you want to get fancy there are these amazing third party windows form controls. It used to be that this kind of prototyping was left for Visual Basic only, however, with Visual Studio and the .NET framework the richness of the prototyping tools and capabilities for C# and VB.NET are fantastic.

So what's my point. Apple definitely isn't helping out their developer story at all by keeping away folks like myself from writing any code on the Mac. Having support for .NET would simply be amazing, but I also think it's a pipe dream. I think there are way to many political issues for Apple to do this, most importantly, they would not want to validate .NET as a developer platform. I don't agree with a lot of what's said in the article. There are some political issues that are going to make any rational viewpoints and perspectives not apply in this case.

 

Wednesday, February 04, 2004 10:47:01 PM (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
Apple isn't helping their developer story any by keeping away people who take one look at a powerful system and run away, that's true.

On the other hand, they're helping their developer story tremendously by enabling people like myself and the great many other Cocoa developers out there to develop more compelling applications far faster than any other platform on the market.

And honestly, NSToolbar isn't that complex to work with. Yes, you need to do some bookkeeping, so the system can provide the user experience Mac OS X users expect automatically. A fair trade. And in many ways, Interface Builder is where the "drag controls off a palette and wire them up" paradigm was invented, and the combination of IB and Cocoa is still the single best implementation of it anywhere.

There's also a moderately thriving exchange in third-party frameworks for Cocoa. Unlike the Windows market, many are Open Source rather than commercial products, but there are commercial ones as well, some quite specialized.

I'm following .NET and WinFX/Avalon pretty closely given that I'm not working with it. And honestly, it is not compelling to an experienced Cocoa developer. Cocoa, on the other hand, is very compelling to organizations for whom developing high-quality solutions fast is important.
Wednesday, February 04, 2004 11:58:14 PM (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
As always there are + and - to any two development enviroment and platforms ;-).

One thing I like about .NET is the languages and frameworks span the Desktop, Mobile and Server market. For instance, I just wrote a EXIF Library for extracting meta data from jpegs. I can now target this library at the software that runs this blog, my WinForms app, and the PPC etc. Pretty nifty IMHO!
Monday, February 09, 2004 8:53:19 AM (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
I've just stayed away from Apple's developer tools. It's made my life easier.

Especially given the level of AppleScript I do. Apple's dev tools support for a language THEY CREATED is pathetic. It wasn't until the latest Xcode/Panther update that they theoretcially have real debugging for AppleScript.

But so far, i can't get it to work. Meanwhile, Script Debugger does work and almost perfectly. Write code, compile, step. No idiotic build requirement. Reminds me of why I loved Codewarrior.

Secondly, Xcode may be a great cocoa tool, but is sucks for writing AppleScript. It assumes that all apps written with it are going to be certain apps. That's never true.

AppleScript Studio is amazing in terms of capabilities, but for getting scripts done, it blows.

I'll keep paying for Script Debugger. When FaceSpan 4 comes out of beta, I'll pay for that too. I've gotten a hundred times more useful work done in those two than I'll ever get done in Studio.

john
Saturday, August 14, 2004 9:29:00 PM (Pacific Daylight Time, UTC-07:00)
I would love it if Apple went .NET. IMHO, it's Apple's tools which are keeping people from writing software for that platform. IB sucks, plain and simple.
Monday, March 14, 2005 12:37:28 PM (Pacific Daylight Time, UTC-07:00)
I just wanted to know if there is a way to have .Net in apple. i am going to buy a laptop and becuase of my university projects , i have to install Visual Studio.net and i am not sure if i can have it on mac.
plz help me.tnx
Iman Ashofteh
Wednesday, July 25, 2007 11:37:04 PM (Pacific Daylight Time, UTC-07:00)
I wounder If I can use Apple for my development works which are mainly web development works in PHP and MS .NET.
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